Loyalty, fellowship and sacrifice are all noble attributes in themselves, but if there is no respect for other life or other life is seen as inferior, it makes them hollow.
>> I think Dobby was probably a better person than most humans who stop and count how many instances of their races and occupations are measured or represented.
You left out gender. I think there's a long list of humans counting - writers (JKR for one), animators, producers all striving very hard for a balanced, diverse scorecard.
I'm not sure if you're confusing my personal opinion of gardeners and houselves or what roles authors intend their characters to play. If you have an issue with Dobby or Sam's role, I can't do anything about it. Besides, they're both heroes in my book. So ... by extension does that make you some kind of hero? Bravo for you.
>> I think Dobby was probably a better person than most humans who stop and count how many instances of their races and occupations are measured or represented.
You left out gender. I think there's a long list of humans counting - writers (JKR for one), animators, producers all striving very hard for a balanced, diverse scorecard.
I'm not sure if you're confusing my personal opinion of gardeners and houselves or what roles authors intend their characters to play. If you have an issue with Dobby or Sam's role, I can't do anything about it. Besides, they're both heroes in my book. So ... by extension does that make you some kind of hero? Bravo for you.
Where exactly does gender play a role and why should it? That's one of the areas where Tolkien and CS Lewis fall down. And you continue the stereotype.
Are Sam and Dobby only heros in your eyes because they sought to strengthen someone else like Harry or Frodo. What if they had tried to do somthing for themselves?
The best part in this last book was when Mrs. Weasley took on Bellatrix.
Tolkien's women always needed a man to make their mark in the story. Lewis' Susan and Lucy they lack the power of their brothers. Perhaps because the authors were men.
But Herminone helped sway the turn of events as did Mrs. Weasely and others on their own merits. I don't think you can fault JK because of gender specific roles, she did her best to show women could be as strong or stronger than men, in the final battles.
And why are Sam and Dobby heros in your view. Because they were friends that sacrificed, or because they belonged to a lower eschelon that still held true to beliefs only the upper classes should really be noble enough to believe in?
Big of you isn't it?
You probably want to throw Hagrid into the same mix, because he's different.
Guess what Hagrid had more social consciousness than Harry or Tolkien ever thought of having.
Sam saves Frodo's life and takes on the burden of carrying the ring. Without him the quest would have failed. Works for me. There's a lot more to Sam in terms of being a literary hero but I don't think you're interested in that.
Dobby saves Harry and plays a crucial role in both the Chamber of Secrets and the Deathly Hallows.
I brought up gender because you mentioned race and occupation -- certainly every author picks and choses every aspect of their characters extremely carefully.
You make it sound like it doesn't matter who these characters are and what they do. It's what shapes the stories.
>> or because they belonged to a lower eschelon that still held true to beliefs only the upper classes should really be noble enough to believe in?
Big of you isn't it?
I heard a woman on the radio that was absolutely convinced that the books were full of satanism and taught little kids how to do black magic. Never mind that she'd never read a single book in the series and was relying on what her minister told her to form her opinion. :rolleyes:
Whenever I hear a knucklehead like that, my first thought is invariably "and to think her vote counts just as much as mine does..." ;)
Loyalty, fellowship and sacrifice are all noble attributes in themselves, but if there is no respect for other life or other life is seen as inferior, it makes them hollow.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
>> I think Dobby was probably a better person than most humans who stop and count how many instances of their races and occupations are measured or represented.
You left out gender. I think there's a long list of humans counting - writers (JKR for one), animators, producers all striving very hard for a balanced, diverse scorecard.
I'm not sure if you're confusing my personal opinion of gardeners and houselves or what roles authors intend their characters to play. If you have an issue with Dobby or Sam's role, I can't do anything about it. Besides, they're both heroes in my book. So ... by extension does that make you some kind of hero? Bravo for you.
Where exactly does gender play a role and why should it? That's one of the areas where Tolkien and CS Lewis fall down. And you continue the stereotype.
Are Sam and Dobby only heros in your eyes because they sought to strengthen someone else like Harry or Frodo. What if they had tried to do somthing for themselves?
The best part in this last book was when Mrs. Weasley took on Bellatrix.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Tolkien's women always needed a man to make their mark in the story. Lewis' Susan and Lucy they lack the power of their brothers. Perhaps because the authors were men.
But Herminone helped sway the turn of events as did Mrs. Weasely and others on their own merits. I don't think you can fault JK because of gender specific roles, she did her best to show women could be as strong or stronger than men, in the final battles.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
And why are Sam and Dobby heros in your view. Because they were friends that sacrificed, or because they belonged to a lower eschelon that still held true to beliefs only the upper classes should really be noble enough to believe in?
Big of you isn't it?
You probably want to throw Hagrid into the same mix, because he's different.
Guess what Hagrid had more social consciousness than Harry or Tolkien ever thought of having.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Sam saves Frodo's life and takes on the burden of carrying the ring. Without him the quest would have failed. Works for me. There's a lot more to Sam in terms of being a literary hero but I don't think you're interested in that.
Dobby saves Harry and plays a crucial role in both the Chamber of Secrets and the Deathly Hallows.
I brought up gender because you mentioned race and occupation -- certainly every author picks and choses every aspect of their characters extremely carefully.
You make it sound like it doesn't matter who these characters are and what they do. It's what shapes the stories.
You are insane. I'm out of here.
>> Guess what Hagrid had more social consciousness than Harry or Tolkien ever thought of having.
Oh I get it. Because he's real isn't he.
... backs slowly away ...
I understand Sams role, it's much like Neville's. No one ever really noticed him, but in the end he made all the difference.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
No because he never saw himself as better than any other life form.
Spiders, dragons, Hagrid always had an empathy for any other life form.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
At the risk of continuing this thread...
The creatures Hagrid interacts with aren't his equals, they're his pets. Nothing wrong with that, but it's far from treating them as equals.
Wow, creepy thread. Where is the "Harry potter books are the devil" part?
They've even ran that side of it on a pannel of experts style tv show over here. Pretty funny stuff.
Oh, it's out there.
I heard a woman on the radio that was absolutely convinced that the books were full of satanism and taught little kids how to do black magic. Never mind that she'd never read a single book in the series and was relying on what her minister told her to form her opinion. :rolleyes:
Whenever I hear a knucklehead like that, my first thought is invariably "and to think her vote counts just as much as mine does..." ;)
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