would i be a failure when i finish my MFA (3d animation) in 2008?

is it true that an average graduate of a business school end up having a top-notch starting salary while an above average cg artist start earning well after 10-15 years in the industry?

If I said yes, would you go to business school?

Aloha,
the Ape

I have just completed my computer engineering but i'm switching to 3d animation as i have identified it as my primary interest. Will be doing a masters degree in it (coz i dont have any professional training in it, and no drawing experience).

so my question is ....that every industary has its pros and cons but on the whole ...does CG ensures that u can earn a decent living? I mean working in domains like 3d Modelling+Animation, 3d visual design campaigns for corporate companies, TV graphics, cg games and cg movies+special effects. Is it possible to jump within these very similar over lapping fields...like from 3d modelling to tv motion graphics etc?

is it true that an average graduate of a business school end up having a top-notch starting salary while an above average cg artist start earning well after 10-15 years in the industry?

There's really no other way to say this, so I'll say it plainly.

An artist needs talent to get a job.

If you do not have, or cannot display the adequate talent for the work, you will NOT get a job, and it doesn't matter what the piece of paper from whatever school says about you.
The animation industry requires DEMONSTRATED artistic ability. If you cannot demonstrate that ability then the industry is not for you.

Treat all education, from an evening class at a community centre to a multi-year degree program at an accredited college or university as ones that HONE an already mostly capable talent into a commerically competent one. Such programs usually do not do much for people with little artistic talent--you ideally should have some base-line competence already to get the most of of these programs.
Your surmize about a 10-15 year "breaking-in period" for an average talent is probably accurate--assume an average talent can get work at all.

A B School Grad will get a lot of money no doubt.
An Animator will get lots of happiness and satisfaction no doubt.

And from your words it seems that you knew it and you blew it.

Well there is a way out.. hmmmmm sign up as a buyer of animation (take a job as vendor developer for a company that buys animation) and then you get the opportunity to strut your stuff without having to beg for payments.

Well... I have done 4 years bachelors in Computer Science (with hons)... had pretty good CGPA..(3.65) Good programming skills...therefore i'm trained to think logic. At the SAME TIME, I'm naturally gifted with good visual design skills (what we call an EYE- as my boss use to say, he had 25 years of experience in Uk running an advertising agency), good asthetic sense and sharp observation. Right now i'm working in a software company, as web/multimedia developer. I have 1.5 years professional experience.

Hey you seem to be a pretty smart chap :cool: You'll survive!;) Gaming seems to be where I'll see you 10 years down the line, although you can start anywhere. I think there's still something left to happen. 4 years ago I imagined the internet websites to be full 3D virtual experience where people who visit a website are actually talking to your virtual employees. So a lot of people in this world will be virtual 3d people. And here I think people like you can fit it.

I think it is best to close this thread on that positive note.

But at the same time, i also dont want to be a social failure ...and it scares me. :(

A social failure according to who? Friends? Family? "Society?"

Do I make as much as the lawyers/doctors/MBAs whose kids go to school with my son? No. But my son thinks I'm the coolest guy in the room, in part because of what I do. My wife loves me and is supportive of my career choice, even though we don't have piles of disposable cash (although we do just fine and manage to live pretty well in one of the most expensive areas of the country). And I have the satisfaction of actually enjoying my work more often than not.

It all depends on how you measure success and what's important to you.

But at the same time, i also dont want to be a social failure ...and it scares me. :(

I am going to say animation is not the field for you Fanatic. I don't know you or your work so I'm just baseing this on the tone of your posts. You seem to be preoccupied with money. Wondering if you can make money in animation is fine, but you seem to want to make a lot of money. There are a couple animators that make a lot of money and this is after decades of hard work and a love of the art. Also it seems like if you do go into animation, you would only work hard because you don't want others to think you failed. This is not the right modivation to get into this buisness. Animation takes decades of late nights and hard work. If you don't love animation you will quickly get burnt out on it and quit.

If this is truely what you want to do, then do it, but I'm sorry, I don't think this is the right field for you.

Aloha,
the Ape

Going for an MBA after CS is a superb combination for others ... but i dont have the liberty to choose "something thats pays well" ... i'm naturally good with visuals... more or less like a visual mathematician.... i cannot now think of any other career then something in motion graphics/animation... so matter-of-factly i dont have any choice! I've got to follow my instincts and yes...it does makes me happy. But at the same time, i also dont want to be a social failure ...and it scares me. :(

I somehow feel that you're a little too nervous. And that too at a stage when you've committed yourself to this career. If you're going to pass out in 2008 - you'd better be working than cowering...

Yes, you most probably might not get invited to the best parties in the town, but do you want happiness or social acceptability? Is being on Page 3 you want? Or you'd like to remain oblivious of the joys of page 3 (except for some very different kind of animators)? You're not Page 3 stuff, better be the Art Page Stuff!

Aaah Society, he's gonna be a sitting duck on a psychiatrist's couch if he carries on this way..

I would ask you to quit these fears and quit this page as well - for no one outside of you can help you. If this is your role on the world's stage, go ahead and take your bow!

Going for an MBA after CS is a superb combination for others ... but i dont have the liberty to choose "something thats pays well" ... i'm naturally good with visuals... more or less like a visual mathematician.... i cannot now think of any other career then something in motion graphics/animation... so matter-of-factly i dont have any choice! I've got to follow my instincts and yes...it does makes me happy. But at the same time, i also dont want to be a social failure ...and it scares me. :(

It's not just an aphorism...when it comes to that sort of thing, you are always at choice.

I think this sort of attitude carries over in a number of fields. I'd run in to little society dames when I was working in horticulture that would say: "It must be so much fun working in a nursery with all the lovely flowers."

Well it was, but it was a hell of a lot of work. A lot of days I went home stooped over because I had spent the day loading sacks of manure into cars, weeding an acre of pots, moving stock, etc.. I enjoyed it because I loved working with the plants and watching the stock develop, but my fingernails were never clean, and a lot of times my feet were wet, and I fell asleep while eating dinner, I was so tired at the end of the day.

I never ask my friends and family when I went into that kind of work, whether or not they would find it acceptable. I thought about what I would be happy doing, no matter how hard the work was.

Visual Fanatic,

There are loads of good jobs for people with good computer science skills and some visual skills. Don't limit yourself to being an animator as it is a hard road. Just check out the job postings here on AWN and you'll see visual effects companies and game companies need computer people who have visual skills. Perhaps this is your best path as you can use the skills you have in the industry you want. Check out the credits for any animated film or special effects blockbuster. There really aren't that many animators, but there are loads of support people. Not many people have the ability to write programs and make good artistic decisions. A BS in Computer Science and an MFA could be your ticket to a good job from the start - but probably not as an animator.

Alan

I think this sort of attitude carries over in a number of fields. I'd run in to little society dames when I was working in horticulture that would say: "It must be so much fun working in a nursery with all the lovely flowers."

Well it was, but it was a hell of a lot of work. A lot of days I went home stooped over because I had spent the day loading sacks of manure into cars, weeding an acre of pots, moving stock, etc.. I enjoyed it because I loved working with the plants and watching the stock develop, but my fingernails were never clean, and a lot of times my feet were wet, and I fell asleep while eating dinner, I was so tired at the end of the day.

I never ask my friends and family when I went into that kind of work, whether or not they would find it acceptable. I thought about what I would be happy doing, no matter how hard the work was.

How very right. It reminds me - when as I young boy I used to collect matchbox labels. I would literally jump into dustbins and look behind bus stops. And even walk with eyes peeled into the ground - scanning like a radar.

I ended up with a horde of labels and pounds of humility.

Yes, I don't think societal approval is given. It is there if you are proud in what you do, and it goes if you are ashamed of what you do.

If you can post your abilities here, I think there are enough of us who can show you the options. We'd like to know what all you're good at. So let us know more about you, maybe post your CV as well.

If you seek to get into the animation industry--in any capacity--for the money, then you will gain only heartache.

After 20+ years in the biz, trust me on this.

i know all of it varies from person to person ... i was just concerned about stability of it as a career...A General Opinion. My first post was a piece out of mental frustration at that point... so i'm sorry about putting it badly and bluntly. So never mind people got it all wrong. :o

Stability?

In a career in animation?

Doesn't happen--or at least, doesn't happen OFTEN. Please do not enter into this kind of field expecting such a thing.
The history of this industry is built upon large numbers of transitory jobs and talents--its been that way for the past 70-something years, and with the gaming and CGI studios, it hasn't changed. The studios that have offered some stability--( though prominent) are few and not easily entered into. Most jobs and companies hire talent on a piecemeal basis.

He means don't expect to be hired on at a studio and think you'll retire there. Even if you are a really good animator. At most studios you'll be hired on for a project, say a movie. When that movie's done with animation 12 or so months later, you may be laid off if the stuido doesn't have another movie for you to roll onto. Most studios try to keep their artists employed, but if there's nothing to do, there's nothing to do, and they'll lay you off.

Aloha,
the Ape

He means don't expect to be hired on at a studio and think you'll retire there. Even if you are a really good animator. At most studios you'll be hired on for a project, say a movie. When that movie's done with animation 12 or so months later, you may be laid off if the stuido doesn't have another movie for you to roll onto. Most studios try to keep their artists employed, but if there's nothing to do, there's nothing to do, and they'll lay you off.

Aloha,
the Ape

And the other thing to keep in mind is that once those jobs/projects end and you go back out looking for the next gig, you tend to have to start all over again in terms of establishing yourself.
One studio might know you, but the next one might not and you'll have to get in the cue like all the other folks applying.
Word of mouth seems to work only for the really talented folks--and for folks that have networked properly.
The thing about networking is that, yes, its all well and good but you need to keep in mind that likely most of the people you've networked with will be gunning for the same job you are--so networking only works to a point.
If you are going to impress anyone, impress the producers and directors you work for.
Keep your portfolio current, and your skills updated and keep sending samples out there even if you have been in the biz for a few years.

And this isn't just for the first year or so......expect to do thus over your entire career.

The upshot is that animation is NOT like other occupations because most of them just need that peice of paper from a school. With animation, your PERFORMANCE with the work, on the job and off, can dictate what jobs you get next--if any.

You can have a run of easy employment, where the jobs follow one after the other, and then have a two year gap of spotty gigs and short low-paying projects. I've been in the biz for over 20 years and its no more "stable" now than it was when I was starting.

And don't discount the (inevitable) screwjob...