QUESTION: "What are the problems with animation today"

Animation as in any art form can be used to promote social discourse of the ideas of the time, such as Hugh Harman's "Peace on Earth". Instead of focussing on selling spin off merchandise the way so many cartoons of today do.

Personally, I'd like to see far less bold outlining and more great characters like Buttercup or DeeDee (shit, I hated Dexter's Lab when it came out and it's way better than what I see my little cousins watching. Sheesh. :( )

I think you might get your wish. I looks like the trend is swinging in the completely opposite direction with no outlines like, Juniper Lee, The X's, and those E-surance ads. :p

Aloha,
the Ape

But it is not only about the process and tools that are used, but he needs to find a real problem, like political, or religious, or economical, or social, or anything of a bigger importance matter, that animation could be envolved in.

It was one of the first industries that US companies started out-sourcing the work over seas. That might be an angle he could research.

Aloha,
the Ape

It was one of the first industries that US companies started out-sourcing the work over seas. That might be an angle he could research.

Aloha,
the Ape

Outsourcing would have been my first pick, but I've realized its something else being something else.
Outsourcing is a symptom, but not the key problem

Imo, its not a monetary issue, I understand the "demands" for cheap labour to make productions viable ( and profitable) but its something endemics BECAUSE pf the demand for cheap labour.

In North America, no-one gives a shit about animation.

Its a child's medium--or something intended for geeks and dolts and "serious" people consume it at their peril.
The common perception is that children are mental idiots ( okay, or just DEVELOPING persons) and this the material presented to them must be patronizing towards those with "lesser" IQ's.
Its a slight that has saddled the North American animation artform for the past 50 years.
So deeply ingrained is this line of thinking that when ANY ATTEMPT is made at producing animation aimed at a older audience, there's a inevitable outcry that "this cartoon is not for children".

Well.........duuuh!
TV cartoons either have to have sly double meanings, or just a careful staged story to present material an adult AND child can enjoy.
Spongebob and Justice League are two good examples.
Even then, its a slippery slope when it comes to acceptance.

Cartoon just don't have the legitimacy of other cinematic entertainment.

The problem lies within the minds of the beholder. I guess?
We are fast approaching the future, and the notion regarding this, is that our way of life will become completely technological.
Many people love cartoons, but there are those who are afraid to admit it, reciting this as--childish. Whatever; yeah:o I believe you.
I don't have the proper evidence to support my.....'notion.' But never the less, people are finding cartoons, obsolete.

With the increased technology afforded animators, I actually see the field being taken more seriously, and being put to uses that in the past would have been unreasonable financially, such as medical and technical training. Animation affords a richer training experience than older methods, like lectures and plain text with static illustration. And there's actually more call for content out there, you now have the web, portable devices, computer presentations. I don't think we are just talking about cartoons here are we carladaniela?

So deeply ingrained is this line of thinking that when ANY ATTEMPT is made at producing animation aimed at a older audience, there's a inevitable outcry that "this cartoon is not for children".

I hear ya Ken. I remember when the Incredibles came out. One of the local morning news women, more than once, said she didn't like the movie. She said it was to violent for her kids who are, I think around 8. Well it is rated PG. Another example of everyday adults thinking all animation is for kids.

Once again, I think we're doing someone's homework for them :D

Aloha,
the Ape

Once again, I think we're doing someone's homework for them :D

Aloha,
the Ape

Since I am not sure what this person is looking for I think we are just batting around "Wilson 3s". And it's one of the best discussions going here since the "Mice and Men" discussion we all got into by accident in the cartoon quote thing.

Imo, its not a monetary issue, I understand the "demands" for cheap labour to make productions viable ( and profitable) but its something endemics BECAUSE pf the demand for cheap labour.

This is my one cent of the part about making the product viable, I do not buy it. In my opinion it comes down to the people on top wanting to keep their personnal income large. If these people could have a fully automated machine do all the work, they would buy it and fire all their work force.

In North America, no-one gives a shit about animation.

Its a child's medium--or something intended for geeks and dolts and "serious" people consume it at their peril.

Its a slight that has saddled the North American animation artform for the past 50 years.

This is true, to a degree. Certainly the subject matter in most mainstream North American animation skews towards kid-friendly subjects. However, movies like Shrek and Nemo don't do the kind of box office they did from kids' admissions alone. There has to be some content there for adults in order for the parents to take the kids more than once (which is also necessary to rake in the huge B.O. numbers).

Without a doubt, though, we could do with some more mature storytelling in North American animation, along the lines of Triplettes of Belleville.

Sounds like North America could use an expanded awareness!

*expands awareness of a continent*

Not for lack of trying on the part of artists, though. Every so often something comes out, like Art Spiegelman's _Maus_ (which is great), and the press gushes about how someone showed that comics or animation isn't just for kids. And each time, it's like no one ever did it before. What can you do about so much indifference and ignorance?

Laurence

The indifference and ignorance is like trying to make a gourmet hamburger, with the finest organically grown ingredients and having a kid push it away and scream for McDonalds.
The thing here is that the "kids" in this equation are all ADULTS!
Bashki's work ( and others) leads the way in more sophisticated Western Animation, but it falls on deaf eyes (and blind eyes) with the public.
Ask anyone on the street if they know of animated cartoons called Fritz the Cat or Cool World, or if they know of Alladdin and Beauty and the Beast, and they will name the latter two almost everytime.
The perceptions are so deeply ingrained in the public eye that it taints ALL animation marketed ( and to a degree, produced) here.
Stuff like Maus--which would be an ideal candidate for a feature film--would probably make for critically excellent product..........but to what end? As soon as the general public finds out its about mice and cats in a Nazi Holocaust parable there'd be no amount of critical praise that could sway them that it's "good". The evolution is too far outside of the general audiences perceptions to appreciate.

I kind of liken it to an art gallery. How many average schmoes go to an art gallery for sheer enjoyment? Heck, most people just walk by such buildings and never venture in--the stuff not being accessible to their interests/intellect or what have you.
Art appreciation is conceitedly considered to be for the intellectuals, the artists and the sophisticated. That's not Joe Q public.

Animation is in the same damn rut----actuallly a PIT! Canada has it famed National Film Board archives of animated shorts..........but the only way they get shown to any broad audience is by dropping them in on TV slots in between other programs-------where than are treated like any other commerical or PSA--in other words, a waste of time.
So much for art appreciation.
The sincerity in adult material means that it must be "true to life" at least in a perceptual way--hence live action. Its why a mature premise ( oh, let's just pull something outa me arse) like Basic Instinct-the animated movie is laughable. Audiences would NEVER accept such a animated medium with such a storyline.
Its the old saw in animation: if it doesn't work in animation then do it some other way.
This means that serious dramas or mature themes need to be couched in fantasy or broad visual concepts like superheroes, or science fiction to be considered acceptable. That almost automatically places in it the realm of children's material according to public perceptions.
Its a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation.

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I kind of liken it to an art gallery. How many average schmoes go to an art gallery for sheer enjoyment? Heck, most people just walk by such buildings and never venture in--the stuff not being accessible to their interests/intellect or what have you.
Art appreciation is conceitedly considered to be for the intellectuals, the artists and the sophisticated. That's not Joe Q public.

Know why Joe Schmoe doesn't frequent art gallerys, because they don't make him welcome, they only want traffic with money in their pockets. They never consider the fact that one that may be broke one day, may have a boatload tomorrow. It's their loss. Sell your soul to the marketing gods and they return to you what they think you are worth. And maybe it's a lot less than what you originally thought.

I find it hard to tune into the idea that "animation is for children", but also the idea that "sex, violence and horror are not for children." When I was a kid, even as young as 10-13, my dad had me watching films like Hellraiser, Natural Born Killers, Eraserhead, Easy Rider, and Akira. :eek: Did I have nightmares? Many! Am I a canniblistic serial killer? Maaaaaybe... But MAN, WAS IT AWESOME!

I can't watch that sh*t without wanting to vomit, you must have a strong stomach, not that I want it legislated, I just don't view it, and that's how it should be with everything. The parents are the guardians why should everything be legistlated, because they don't want to be responsible, or maybe they are too busy working multiple jobs in this fantastic economy just to keep their style of living. What have we sacrificed? My parents never censored my reading or viewing, but my mom did make some rude jokes when she found me reading the "Story of O" at eleven. Somehow after her comments it wasn't as cool as I first thought.

http://www.unicef.org/crcartoons/main.htm

How about censorship, it is a on going hot topic. He would need to be very careful, are he could get into a whole lot of trouble just by talking about it.

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