What is going to happen to the "Flash Forward Festivals" in the future?
Will this event still exist next year and the years to come?
Oh well, Macromedia is, was one of my favorite software companies.
I guess Fireworks will no longer exist after the merger.
I have nothing against Adobe but I just think competition is good.
I wonder what will happen to flash?
I guess it will be called something else.
It was the perfect pagelayout/illustrative program for ad agencies! You could create multiple pages for ad layouts, whilst in Illustrator--just one page...what's up with that!?!
Oh well, Seattle is Adobe-town. True, say goodbye to Fireworks (never used it, I'm an Imageready guy). ..the big question is what about Flash and "Eightball"? Hmmmm...
FreeHand is good tool just as Illustrator is, depending on who you ask which is superior? I dont know, I worked on the FreeHand team and it was a huge crushing blow to get laid off after the last release.We worked our butts off and got a pretty quick exit after endgame.Nature of the beast I guess but sometimes what happens has more to do with management than anyone else in the end product, like the team or user requests, ect...Fireworks has a lot of integration with Dreamweaver that just cannot be replaced with the ease and adaptability IMO...yet.I dont know, maybe thats the point, keep all the things they like and trash the ones they dont...
Flash is the big aquire I gather from the people I know, 8 ball is still on and so is Fireworks..(for now?) Its sad to see the merge and almost encouraging in the same way.
There's an interesting discussion going on over at Flashkit, that delves into perhaps some of the corporate reasoning behind this for those that are interested.
Just thought I'd point out that as a result of my "Freehand - Rubbish" comment I've just had a very abusive email peppered with some rather unsavoury language. Whilst I admit my statement was a tad abrupt and maybe I should have gone into specific detail about why I thought this particular piece of software wasn't to my liking, I would appreciate not being abused in such a way.
—
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
Its funny how some people dismiss things in such curt and abusive ways not realizing that peoples "LIVES" are affected regardless of your opinion.If your a few years away from retirement for example?
I knew a few people who had their houses put up for auction due to Forclosure, some people with 10 plus years invested in a single product with the company.Some had no choice but to relocate, a few marraiges were wrecked, families uprooted and the like.I had nothing close to that type of investment in the company but I seriously felt for those who had.
In short this ruined a few peoples lives and Im sure affected everybody else in some less degree but nevertheless..
Its nice to see a little compassion even if it may be on an faceless internet forum...:rolleyes:
Swanka, you're absolutely right that things like this affect people's lives, and you're undoubtedly much closer to this particular issue, given your ringside seat for the festivities. That doesn't mean, though, that we should not voice opinions in deference to those affected.
If we had to restrain what we said because it affects people's lives, then we wouldn't have much to discuss, since everything that happens everywhere, everyday affects someone somewhere. Or do we just not discuss things that affect people we know? Are events that affect stranger's lives the only fair game?
Yes, it's awful when things like this ripple down to people we know. It's happened to friends of mine; hell, it's happened to me. But it happens and you move on. A comment on an internet board is just that; a comment.
Agreed. It's -because- it affects so many lives professionally that it gets talked about. Had they kept everyone on and no one's emotional existence was messed with this would still be a hot topic.
My grandfather worked 7 days under 30 years for a company that did auto parts. They decided it'd be fun to axe the people that made in the tens of thousands a year in order to make the 6 people up top into billionaires, so they moved to Mexico. Seven days before his retirement. He lost most of his pension because of that. He'll get some of it when he turns the federal age for it, but that was years and years and year ago and now he's working a toll booth when he'd rather enjoy his life just like he earned. But I still talk about those auto parts. Software's almost as universal in its use.
We're doomed!
I think the main reason for Adobe buying Macromedia is not for Flash it self, but for the Flash Player. It's become the standard player on the web, and from what I've heard it's on most cel phones in Asia and creeping it's way into Europe and the US as well. Thats huge.
While I've never really cared for Macromedia, they've never taking Flash animation seriously, I think Adobe will do a far worse job. Macromedia has always considered it only for web design, and has ignored the animation comunity as a whole. Everytime they upgrade Flash it's to make webdesign easier, and mess up the good things they had from the program befor. Don't get me wrong, I love Flash. I think it's a great program that is incredibly versitile, and is capable of Sooooo much more than what Macromedia thinks it can do. Any way, I'm keeping my copy of MX 2004, thats for sure.
Bring on the hate mail ;)
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Could be true Ape. Scuttlebutt is it's a corporate ploy to compete or stop MS with their new Avalon product.
I feel lost. Macromedia was the little guy when they came out with Flash. I was learning Director which is alright, but a royal pain in the butt when I first heard of Flash. I never looked back.
Guess I'll keep my eyes open for some other little company that has a new idea.
I am not giving up MX, haven't really gotten used to MX2004 yet. But it's probably because my puter is so old. If I ever get a new one I am sure it won't be such a memory hog.
Macromedia lost sales with their last version of Flash, maybe that also added to the mix.
Which was, I thought, the impetus to make Flash 8 the animator's Flash.
I can't imagine why they'd be scared of MS. You can very rarely beat an old dog at its own trick -- to me the only thing in its favor is it could prepackage everything just like IE and get a huge market share right off the bat.
You've missed a lot of the chatter going around. MS has a new graphics program up it's sleeve based on "Expression" the program ( http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/)they gave away for free. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it but it's a pretty robust vector program with plugins and filters. And they were promising a lot animation bells and whistles, and a new way of presenting the animation on the web (read: new player or ActiveX solution).
And look at the glory ActiveX has nowadays. Constant security exploits and vehicles for porn to destroy people's computers. I'd hardly call a second round of something like that tantalizing. I don't even let WebTangent on, and it's flashy (no pun intended).
Expression looks interesting though. Even though obviously I care less about still work in terms of my vector software. Can anyone register and download, or were you one of the existing owners?
I wasn't a previous owner. I think it was Ibis over at FlashFilmmaker posted a link about the giveaway, and we all went and downloaded it. If I remember right they just ask some basic registration questions and let you download it.
Hey DSB, what company did you get laid off from? Thats terrible.With all the outsourcing and whatnot it seems to happening to at least someone we all know.
Scattered sorry to hear about your Grandpa, I hate to see older citizens doing menial jobs instead of spending their "golden years" enjoying the fruits of their labors.Like sacking groceries or working a toll booth..
Ape I think personally that calling something "rubbish" and making a real attempt at explaining yourself in a decent manner are two different things but what do I know?When they cut your team in half, your budget in half, add more features and move up the shipping date somethings gotta give?To each his own..
Some people LOVE flash and some think its the evil of the internet?Software is a tricky biz; no matter how many people dig what youre doing there will allways be naysayers and few blowhards who have their negative input instead of real progressive constructive critisism.
I've been laid off a couple times in my life - which companies they were really doesn't matter. In every instance it's led to something more interesting and rewarding than what I was doing before. It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. Plus, in both cases I've ultimately gotten the last laugh, as the companies go under or the incompetent management is shown the door.
Yeah, Phacker, I think Flash MX was probably their best version, at least from an animation stand point. They really messed up the 'undo' function in MX 2004.
As for 8 Ball, I've heard it's either been shelved, or basicaly a joke of what they touted it to be. To they're credit they had a blog going to get input from Flash animators, and a bunch of us on Foster's and Puffy Ami Yumi posted sugestions. I guess we'll see how it is when the new version comes out. I did see a video clip of them showing off the New Flash at, I think, a company meeting, and the 'animation features' were a joke.
I'm not looking forward to learning new hot keys again. :P
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Hey Ape not to be a smart alec but did you know they have sets of shortcuts that you can load from Edit/Keyboard Shortcuts and then pull down the list (where it says current; Macromedia Standard) and I think they have Flash 5, Fireworks 4, Freehand 10, Illustrator, Photoshop 6 and whatnot.You can make a copy of any of those sets and customize them once and save the set, from then on you can use them to your liking whenever you want..You'd be surprised at the pros who are not aware of this option..:o
Damn Swanka, I thought I was the only smart alec :P I'm just playing. Yes, I did know that. The thing I find with that is that it's good if you work alone to customize your hot keys. If you work in a group production environment, where we will jump on other people's computers from time to time to show some one something, if the hot keys are customized, the person gets lost. I just prefer leaving them the way there are, and maybe adding new ones that I use a lot, like flip horizontal and vertical.
Good tip, Swanka, and you're right, a lot of people don't know about that feature.
Aloha,
the Ape
—
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
My hope is maybe some small little company will pop up like Macromedia did and fill a need. It would be nice if Adobe revised and makes things work better for everyone, but that hasn't been my experience in the past.
I still rely a lot on old companies like Corel, know a lot of you folks have never even tried their products, but I use all of them. And find a lot of Corel features more friendly then the Adobe stuff. I use Adobe because everyone seems to, and Macromedia came a long and offered even something else, which I could really get my teeth into.
I am always open to new stuff if it works for me. So come on new companies give us something that really works, or maybe Adobe will really rework some of it's ideas. They've been the big gun for so long, they expect us to work with their limits. I fight with the interface everytime I open an Adobe product. I'd like to like their stuff, but I can just work faster in other products.
There's such a variance too, it's hard to get adjusted to even the best of things once you've spent -years- in a particular rut. The GIMP is free, and has most of the major features of Photoshop, but who downloads it? Some people might experiment, and it has its loyal fans from the get, but thanks to already having -bought- something else and becoming uber-familiar with -that-, I don't think any thrones are soon to be usurped.
One of the best things about Macromedia has always been that they've valued their user base and their opinions and recommendations. I wonder what will happen in that area.
On almost every Macromedia product based forum that I belong to Macromedia has staff assigned to give input and also take feedback. How often do you see that in Adobe forums.
I've got my fingers crossed that Adobe will take a page out of their book.
Wow. Do you have a link?
What is going to happen to the "Flash Forward Festivals" in the future?
Will this event still exist next year and the years to come?
Oh well, Macromedia is, was one of my favorite software companies.
I guess Fireworks will no longer exist after the merger.
I have nothing against Adobe but I just think competition is good.
I wonder what will happen to flash?
I guess it will be called something else.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=8208822
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/adobeandmacromedia.html
I'd imagine that Flash will continue along it's current path. Adobe is buying them for a reason, after all. My guess is Flash and Dreamweaver.
Fireworks features will probably be incorporated into Photoshop.
Freehand will probably be phased out (and IMO, good riddance).
Thus are DSB's predictions. ;)
Sorry, DSB I gotta defend Freehand!
It was the perfect pagelayout/illustrative program for ad agencies! You could create multiple pages for ad layouts, whilst in Illustrator--just one page...what's up with that!?!
Oh well, Seattle is Adobe-town. True, say goodbye to Fireworks (never used it, I'm an Imageready guy). ..the big question is what about Flash and "Eightball"? Hmmmm...
Splatman :confused:
SPLAT digital
FreeHand is good tool just as Illustrator is, depending on who you ask which is superior? I dont know, I worked on the FreeHand team and it was a huge crushing blow to get laid off after the last release.We worked our butts off and got a pretty quick exit after endgame.Nature of the beast I guess but sometimes what happens has more to do with management than anyone else in the end product, like the team or user requests, ect...Fireworks has a lot of integration with Dreamweaver that just cannot be replaced with the ease and adaptability IMO...yet.I dont know, maybe thats the point, keep all the things they like and trash the ones they dont...
Flash is the big aquire I gather from the people I know, 8 ball is still on and so is Fireworks..(for now?) Its sad to see the merge and almost encouraging in the same way.
There's an interesting discussion going on over at Flashkit, that delves into perhaps some of the corporate reasoning behind this for those that are interested.
http://www.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=626407&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Here is a FAQ in what else, pdf format.
(I'm just a little hurt guys)
I've always loved Macromedia.
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/pdfs/AdobeMacromediaFAQ.pdf
I just can't imagine the world without Director even though I've never created any games with it.
I wonder if shockwave.com will exist anymore.
Good news!
Freehand - rubbish
CS suite - Photoshop,Illustrator and indesign work so well together and hopefully flash will sit well alongside them
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
Just thought I'd point out that as a result of my "Freehand - Rubbish" comment I've just had a very abusive email peppered with some rather unsavoury language. Whilst I admit my statement was a tad abrupt and maybe I should have gone into specific detail about why I thought this particular piece of software wasn't to my liking, I would appreciate not being abused in such a way.
The Brothers McLeod
[SIZE=2]brothersmcleod.co.uk[/SIZE]
I didn't even know we had abusive people here...
Its funny how some people dismiss things in such curt and abusive ways not realizing that peoples "LIVES" are affected regardless of your opinion.If your a few years away from retirement for example?
I knew a few people who had their houses put up for auction due to Forclosure, some people with 10 plus years invested in a single product with the company.Some had no choice but to relocate, a few marraiges were wrecked, families uprooted and the like.I had nothing close to that type of investment in the company but I seriously felt for those who had.
In short this ruined a few peoples lives and Im sure affected everybody else in some less degree but nevertheless..
Its nice to see a little compassion even if it may be on an faceless internet forum...:rolleyes:
Swanka, you're absolutely right that things like this affect people's lives, and you're undoubtedly much closer to this particular issue, given your ringside seat for the festivities. That doesn't mean, though, that we should not voice opinions in deference to those affected.
If we had to restrain what we said because it affects people's lives, then we wouldn't have much to discuss, since everything that happens everywhere, everyday affects someone somewhere. Or do we just not discuss things that affect people we know? Are events that affect stranger's lives the only fair game?
Yes, it's awful when things like this ripple down to people we know. It's happened to friends of mine; hell, it's happened to me. But it happens and you move on. A comment on an internet board is just that; a comment.
Agreed. It's -because- it affects so many lives professionally that it gets talked about. Had they kept everyone on and no one's emotional existence was messed with this would still be a hot topic.
My grandfather worked 7 days under 30 years for a company that did auto parts. They decided it'd be fun to axe the people that made in the tens of thousands a year in order to make the 6 people up top into billionaires, so they moved to Mexico. Seven days before his retirement. He lost most of his pension because of that. He'll get some of it when he turns the federal age for it, but that was years and years and year ago and now he's working a toll booth when he'd rather enjoy his life just like he earned. But I still talk about those auto parts. Software's almost as universal in its use.
We're doomed!
I think the main reason for Adobe buying Macromedia is not for Flash it self, but for the Flash Player. It's become the standard player on the web, and from what I've heard it's on most cel phones in Asia and creeping it's way into Europe and the US as well. Thats huge.
While I've never really cared for Macromedia, they've never taking Flash animation seriously, I think Adobe will do a far worse job. Macromedia has always considered it only for web design, and has ignored the animation comunity as a whole. Everytime they upgrade Flash it's to make webdesign easier, and mess up the good things they had from the program befor. Don't get me wrong, I love Flash. I think it's a great program that is incredibly versitile, and is capable of Sooooo much more than what Macromedia thinks it can do. Any way, I'm keeping my copy of MX 2004, thats for sure.
Bring on the hate mail ;)
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Could be true Ape. Scuttlebutt is it's a corporate ploy to compete or stop MS with their new Avalon product.
I feel lost. Macromedia was the little guy when they came out with Flash. I was learning Director which is alright, but a royal pain in the butt when I first heard of Flash. I never looked back.
Guess I'll keep my eyes open for some other little company that has a new idea.
I am not giving up MX, haven't really gotten used to MX2004 yet. But it's probably because my puter is so old. If I ever get a new one I am sure it won't be such a memory hog.
Macromedia lost sales with their last version of Flash, maybe that also added to the mix.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Which was, I thought, the impetus to make Flash 8 the animator's Flash.
I can't imagine why they'd be scared of MS. You can very rarely beat an old dog at its own trick -- to me the only thing in its favor is it could prepackage everything just like IE and get a huge market share right off the bat.
You've missed a lot of the chatter going around. MS has a new graphics program up it's sleeve based on "Expression" the program ( http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/)they gave away for free. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it but it's a pretty robust vector program with plugins and filters. And they were promising a lot animation bells and whistles, and a new way of presenting the animation on the web (read: new player or ActiveX solution).
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
And look at the glory ActiveX has nowadays. Constant security exploits and vehicles for porn to destroy people's computers. I'd hardly call a second round of something like that tantalizing. I don't even let WebTangent on, and it's flashy (no pun intended).
Expression looks interesting though. Even though obviously I care less about still work in terms of my vector software. Can anyone register and download, or were you one of the existing owners?
I wasn't a previous owner. I think it was Ibis over at FlashFilmmaker posted a link about the giveaway, and we all went and downloaded it. If I remember right they just ask some basic registration questions and let you download it.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
Hey DSB, what company did you get laid off from? Thats terrible.With all the outsourcing and whatnot it seems to happening to at least someone we all know.
Scattered sorry to hear about your Grandpa, I hate to see older citizens doing menial jobs instead of spending their "golden years" enjoying the fruits of their labors.Like sacking groceries or working a toll booth..
Ape I think personally that calling something "rubbish" and making a real attempt at explaining yourself in a decent manner are two different things but what do I know?When they cut your team in half, your budget in half, add more features and move up the shipping date somethings gotta give?To each his own..
Some people LOVE flash and some think its the evil of the internet?Software is a tricky biz; no matter how many people dig what youre doing there will allways be naysayers and few blowhards who have their negative input instead of real progressive constructive critisism.
I've been laid off a couple times in my life - which companies they were really doesn't matter. In every instance it's led to something more interesting and rewarding than what I was doing before. It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. Plus, in both cases I've ultimately gotten the last laugh, as the companies go under or the incompetent management is shown the door.
Yeah, Phacker, I think Flash MX was probably their best version, at least from an animation stand point. They really messed up the 'undo' function in MX 2004.
As for 8 Ball, I've heard it's either been shelved, or basicaly a joke of what they touted it to be. To they're credit they had a blog going to get input from Flash animators, and a bunch of us on Foster's and Puffy Ami Yumi posted sugestions. I guess we'll see how it is when the new version comes out. I did see a video clip of them showing off the New Flash at, I think, a company meeting, and the 'animation features' were a joke.
I'm not looking forward to learning new hot keys again. :P
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Hey Ape not to be a smart alec but did you know they have sets of shortcuts that you can load from Edit/Keyboard Shortcuts and then pull down the list (where it says current; Macromedia Standard) and I think they have Flash 5, Fireworks 4, Freehand 10, Illustrator, Photoshop 6 and whatnot.You can make a copy of any of those sets and customize them once and save the set, from then on you can use them to your liking whenever you want..You'd be surprised at the pros who are not aware of this option..:o
Damn Swanka, I thought I was the only smart alec :P I'm just playing. Yes, I did know that. The thing I find with that is that it's good if you work alone to customize your hot keys. If you work in a group production environment, where we will jump on other people's computers from time to time to show some one something, if the hot keys are customized, the person gets lost. I just prefer leaving them the way there are, and maybe adding new ones that I use a lot, like flip horizontal and vertical.
Good tip, Swanka, and you're right, a lot of people don't know about that feature.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
Bummer, I really had high hopes for 8 Ball... won't someone fill the need for a kick ass 2d/web/broadcast program?!
My hope is maybe some small little company will pop up like Macromedia did and fill a need. It would be nice if Adobe revised and makes things work better for everyone, but that hasn't been my experience in the past.
I still rely a lot on old companies like Corel, know a lot of you folks have never even tried their products, but I use all of them. And find a lot of Corel features more friendly then the Adobe stuff. I use Adobe because everyone seems to, and Macromedia came a long and offered even something else, which I could really get my teeth into.
I am always open to new stuff if it works for me. So come on new companies give us something that really works, or maybe Adobe will really rework some of it's ideas. They've been the big gun for so long, they expect us to work with their limits. I fight with the interface everytime I open an Adobe product. I'd like to like their stuff, but I can just work faster in other products.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.
There's such a variance too, it's hard to get adjusted to even the best of things once you've spent -years- in a particular rut. The GIMP is free, and has most of the major features of Photoshop, but who downloads it? Some people might experiment, and it has its loyal fans from the get, but thanks to already having -bought- something else and becoming uber-familiar with -that-, I don't think any thrones are soon to be usurped.
One of the best things about Macromedia has always been that they've valued their user base and their opinions and recommendations. I wonder what will happen in that area.
On almost every Macromedia product based forum that I belong to Macromedia has staff assigned to give input and also take feedback. How often do you see that in Adobe forums.
I've got my fingers crossed that Adobe will take a page out of their book.
Pat Hacker, Visit Scooter's World.