Thanks Ken, my questions must look overly simple but I was getting tired of looking for the answer. Just to be clear, making cuts in a sequence does not turn the piece into multiple sequences.
I understand that shots, scenes, and sequences can be any length. Is there some guide lines as to how long they should be or is the script the source that dictates their lenghts?
Thanks Ken, my questions must look overly simple but I was getting tired of looking for the answer. Just to be clear, making cuts in a sequence does not turn the piece into multiple sequences.
I understand that shots, scenes, and sequences can be any length. Is there some guide lines as to how long they should be or is the script the source that dictates their lenghts?
The current interpretation is that a series of scenes that take place in continuous circumstances constitute a sequence. This can mean a series of scenes in a given locale, or at a point in time.
Cutting between scenes becomes a necessity because one can tell only so much of the story from a given point of view before having to move the camera to another vantage point. The cut negates the unnecessary/distracting travel that would be involved in moving the camera to that place and then back again.
Example: two people having a coversation--one looking out a window, the other on the ground. If there were no cuts in this set-up the camera would have to physically move from one speaker to the next. This would render the viewer sea-sick and would be a distraction. Hence we cut from one to the other and use the convention of the cut as the means of transitioning our focus from one character to the other.
The length of the scene is determined by the natural timing involved in a scene. This is often a intuitive thing.
If the situation calls for a linger shot on the scene then let the camera linger. If the situation requires cuts between objects of attention, then cut to each as required.
A rule of thumb is that benign situations tend to linger, and active sequences tend to have quicker cutting. These are not hard or fast rules though.
The untrained/ignorant audience registers camera work and cutting unconciously--unless it draws attention to itself.
Do properly a twist on the above can create certain emotional effects.
John Woo's Hard Boiled has a scene involving one long unbroken take in the midst of a gun battle. The characters start out on one floor, shooting opponents on one floor, work their way to a elevator, step in and proceed to another floor. The camera follows along and they step onto another floor after a pause for the elevator to travel and then continue on the shooting spree. There are no cuts AT ALL in this almost 1-2 minute long scene--but the camera does go slo-mo in spots.
Its a breathtaking bit of cagey filmmaking because the lingering camera on the heroes notches up the intensity to great heights. I've explored that scene with the idea of cuts installed and, to my mind, it would half the tension.
Here's the interpretation I teach:
IN ANIMATION a shot is equal to a frame of film. It is the image we see from the camera's POV. The shot can move ( pan ) to take in another image, or part of the image and that new POV is also a shot--thus making two.
Once we CUT from that shot, to another--the change constitutes a new scene. As before a scene can have several shots, with the camera moving to look at different settings and circumstances. In Animation, everytime you cut, you cut to a new scene.
A scene tells of a happening, an event. It is akin to a sentence in a story.
A sequence is a series of scenes cut together serially to create a story vignette, or a chapter of a story.
A fight scene, car chase, dance scene are all examples of sequences--particularily if they have some length. Brief examples of those events inseted in the events of some other scenes does not make those other events their own sequence, but plants them as accents within the sequence they are in.
Example: man dying in a alley, juxtaposed by a child being born in a hospital.
In LIVE-ACTION, the difference I've noted is that a scene is a set-up in a given locale and cuts are possible between shots. The term "shot" in live-action, is what we call a "scene" in animation. Thus, the camera can cut from subject to subject in a given scene and those cuts would be from shot to shot.
Make sense?
—
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I dunno....when I animated I would get handed scenes.
In Tv, a sequence was that series of scenes between the commercials.:)
Ken: Your posts makes it very clear.
Graphiteman: Based on what I have readed so far, your sequence is built as a narrative unit.
So, I need to watch my narative when building up a shoot list. Consturting shots into scenes, in order to build up one or more sequences to make a narative.
It would be nice to avoid producing 10 minutes of art to only use 5 minutes of it. I know that storyboarding should be my guide and I am currently studying a book on storyboarding but I think I might just end up with a lot of wasted shots.
The book I am reading is now talking about the establishing shot so I have reviewed a number of different feature movies on DVD. It is easy to spot the establishing shot because most of the DVD chapers start off with it, with a few that have it place later in the chapter.
If the scene is long, and or complex, could there be other establishing shot within the scene? Does an establishing shot act as the demarcation between scenes?
It's all a matter of words, which ultimately, the audience never sees. Whatever you call it to keep it all straight is fine. As I've used the terms professionally:
Frame - an individual image. One frame of film or video. The smallest unit of measurement with reguards to time in a movie. Can also be used as a verb, describing the physical dimensions/composition of a shot "How is it framed?"
Shot - a series of frames that comprise the action of the film. A film is typically comprised of a number of shots.
Take - A single try at a shot. A director will shoot (and sometimes animate) several takes of the same shot and choose the best one.
Sequence - A series of shots edited together to create a story. Many movies are comprised of multiple sequences. This is often synonomous with scene. Scene has been co-opted by CG as programs like Maya use it to name their individual files, so it can be confused with shot. I haven't seen scene used in production unles talking about the script.
The one film I can think of (and I'm sure there are others) that makes this difficult is "Rope" by Hitchcock. It's all filmed as one shot. So, aside from camera trickery, there is no sequence , only one shot. But before you go deciding to break the rules of editing and film making you better know them first and why you're breaking them. I've had students claiming they wanted to break the rules before they really knew what they were doing. It never looks avante guard, it ALWAYS looks like they don't know what they're doing. I applaud you for trying to figure out the basics of film.
As far as multiple establishing shots? Are you re-establishing the location or just showing a new object? I imagine that if you need to re-establish where you are or what's going on, you may want to consider breaking it into two separate sequences. I'd have to read/see exactly why you needed to to give you accurate advice on this one though.
Its called a cut.
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
Thanks Ken, my questions must look overly simple but I was getting tired of looking for the answer. Just to be clear, making cuts in a sequence does not turn the piece into multiple sequences.
I understand that shots, scenes, and sequences can be any length. Is there some guide lines as to how long they should be or is the script the source that dictates their lenghts?
The current interpretation is that a series of scenes that take place in continuous circumstances constitute a sequence. This can mean a series of scenes in a given locale, or at a point in time.
Cutting between scenes becomes a necessity because one can tell only so much of the story from a given point of view before having to move the camera to another vantage point. The cut negates the unnecessary/distracting travel that would be involved in moving the camera to that place and then back again.
Example: two people having a coversation--one looking out a window, the other on the ground. If there were no cuts in this set-up the camera would have to physically move from one speaker to the next. This would render the viewer sea-sick and would be a distraction. Hence we cut from one to the other and use the convention of the cut as the means of transitioning our focus from one character to the other.
The length of the scene is determined by the natural timing involved in a scene. This is often a intuitive thing.
If the situation calls for a linger shot on the scene then let the camera linger. If the situation requires cuts between objects of attention, then cut to each as required.
A rule of thumb is that benign situations tend to linger, and active sequences tend to have quicker cutting. These are not hard or fast rules though.
The untrained/ignorant audience registers camera work and cutting unconciously--unless it draws attention to itself.
Do properly a twist on the above can create certain emotional effects.
John Woo's Hard Boiled has a scene involving one long unbroken take in the midst of a gun battle. The characters start out on one floor, shooting opponents on one floor, work their way to a elevator, step in and proceed to another floor. The camera follows along and they step onto another floor after a pause for the elevator to travel and then continue on the shooting spree. There are no cuts AT ALL in this almost 1-2 minute long scene--but the camera does go slo-mo in spots.
Its a breathtaking bit of cagey filmmaking because the lingering camera on the heroes notches up the intensity to great heights. I've explored that scene with the idea of cuts installed and, to my mind, it would half the tension.
Here's the interpretation I teach:
IN ANIMATION a shot is equal to a frame of film. It is the image we see from the camera's POV. The shot can move ( pan ) to take in another image, or part of the image and that new POV is also a shot--thus making two.
Once we CUT from that shot, to another--the change constitutes a new scene. As before a scene can have several shots, with the camera moving to look at different settings and circumstances. In Animation, everytime you cut, you cut to a new scene.
A scene tells of a happening, an event. It is akin to a sentence in a story.
A sequence is a series of scenes cut together serially to create a story vignette, or a chapter of a story.
A fight scene, car chase, dance scene are all examples of sequences--particularily if they have some length. Brief examples of those events inseted in the events of some other scenes does not make those other events their own sequence, but plants them as accents within the sequence they are in.
Example: man dying in a alley, juxtaposed by a child being born in a hospital.
In LIVE-ACTION, the difference I've noted is that a scene is a set-up in a given locale and cuts are possible between shots. The term "shot" in live-action, is what we call a "scene" in animation. Thus, the camera can cut from subject to subject in a given scene and those cuts would be from shot to shot.
Make sense?
"We all grow older, we do not have to grow up"--Archie Goodwin ( 1937-1998)
I'm going to go with a sequence of shots.
Aloha,
the Ape
...we must all face a choice, between what is right... and what is easy."
I dunno....when I animated I would get handed scenes.
In Tv, a sequence was that series of scenes between the commercials.:)
They don't call me Eisenstien for nuthin';) (...and they don't!)
Ken: Your posts makes it very clear.
Graphiteman: Based on what I have readed so far, your sequence is built as a narrative unit.
So, I need to watch my narative when building up a shoot list. Consturting shots into scenes, in order to build up one or more sequences to make a narative.
It would be nice to avoid producing 10 minutes of art to only use 5 minutes of it. I know that storyboarding should be my guide and I am currently studying a book on storyboarding but I think I might just end up with a lot of wasted shots.
Hello.
A shot and a scene are the same thing.
A "scene" is the animation term, "shot" is the live-action term (which creeps in from time to time).
In animation studios, animators work on "scenes"- as mentioned - a series of scenes are in a "sequence" and sequences comprise an animated film.
Hope that helps....
Thanks,
Larry
web site
http://tooninst[URL=http://tooninstitute.awn.com]itute.awn.com
[/URL]blog:
[U]http://www.awm.com/blogs/always-animated
[/U] email:
larry.lauria@gmail.com
The book I am reading is now talking about the establishing shot so I have reviewed a number of different feature movies on DVD. It is easy to spot the establishing shot because most of the DVD chapers start off with it, with a few that have it place later in the chapter.
If the scene is long, and or complex, could there be other establishing shot within the scene? Does an establishing shot act as the demarcation between scenes?
It's all a matter of words, which ultimately, the audience never sees. Whatever you call it to keep it all straight is fine. As I've used the terms professionally:
Frame - an individual image. One frame of film or video. The smallest unit of measurement with reguards to time in a movie. Can also be used as a verb, describing the physical dimensions/composition of a shot "How is it framed?"
Shot - a series of frames that comprise the action of the film. A film is typically comprised of a number of shots.
Take - A single try at a shot. A director will shoot (and sometimes animate) several takes of the same shot and choose the best one.
Sequence - A series of shots edited together to create a story. Many movies are comprised of multiple sequences. This is often synonomous with scene. Scene has been co-opted by CG as programs like Maya use it to name their individual files, so it can be confused with shot. I haven't seen scene used in production unles talking about the script.
The one film I can think of (and I'm sure there are others) that makes this difficult is "Rope" by Hitchcock. It's all filmed as one shot. So, aside from camera trickery, there is no sequence , only one shot. But before you go deciding to break the rules of editing and film making you better know them first and why you're breaking them. I've had students claiming they wanted to break the rules before they really knew what they were doing. It never looks avante guard, it ALWAYS looks like they don't know what they're doing. I applaud you for trying to figure out the basics of film.
As far as multiple establishing shots? Are you re-establishing the location or just showing a new object? I imagine that if you need to re-establish where you are or what's going on, you may want to consider breaking it into two separate sequences. I'd have to read/see exactly why you needed to to give you accurate advice on this one though.
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